From: Raymond <Bluerhymer@aol.com>
Subject: Miscellaneous Information on the MANNLICHER- CARCANO
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:21:07 -0800 (PST)
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Miscellaneous Information on the MANNLICHER- CARCANO
Adam Consolidated (CRESCENT FIREARMS)
"Three American firms entered the competition for the 91s that the
Italian Defense Ministry was selling. Adam Consolidated, in
conjunction with the Feldsott brothers,who won the bidding with a
total offer of $ 1,776,OOO for the approximately 570,000 guns."
Some 5300 kilos (approx. 1200 Pounds) of parts were included in the
contract price. Adam also purchased 2,608,704 rounds of
ammunition, which were picked up and paid for as items separate from
the surplus weapons, on three occasions."
Aug. 8, 1960 ....................653,176 cartridges 6.5 mm
July 31, 1961.................... 1,304,352 same
June 6, 1962 ..................... 652,176 same
The price was $13.57 per thousand, or somewhat more than a penny per
---- THE GUN - Henry S. Bloomgarden
Apparently, thousands of these Italian rifles were sold in the US
before Crescent won the above bid. Klein's was selling the 7.35 mm as
early as the spring of 1958 In their ad of 4-58, the MANNLICHER HIGH
POWER RIFLE sold for $12.95- Good outside, very good inside. A very
good outside-Excellent inside sold for $14.95 and an Excellent inside
and outside cost $16.95. For 98 cents, a leather sling was available
and a cleaning rod cost 79 cents. Military ammo in clips of six-12
for 98 cents- 48 for $2.98.
The following month-the same ad, but the sling and rod were included
free. From 7-58 until 10-60, Klein's did not advertise any MCs.
Then, in 10-60 appeared their ad for the CUSTOM
SPORTERIZED MODEL for $19.88.
In 3-62 the 6.5 mm was advertised for $11.88. AMERICAN RIFLEMAN . In
1958, Congressman Morano was pleading : "Let's find out where some of
these Carcano rifles have gone." Macy's and Sears Roebuck , as well
as sporting supply stores, discount stores and Army-and-Navy-surplus
stores sold the weapon and the ammo.
Some of these guns came from Finland:
"During the first winter of the war with Russia, Finland procured from
Sweden approximately 15,000
Swedish 6.5 mm M 96 Mausers and 6.5 mm ammunition which Finland
decided to manufacture for these weapons during WW II. Finland
received, in addition, a supply of Italian M38, 7.35 mm carbines via
Germany during WW II. Both weapons saw limited service as they were
relegated to use by the stationary troops, such as guards on bridges,
airfields, railways, waterworks, etc. Today , the greater portion of
the M 38 carbines Finland received can be traced to the U.S. market as
surplus war goods."
----- FROM- BOOK OF RIFLES
I have noticed that there is an interest in the Carcano, its costs,
and also questions about the ammunition. Do yourselves a favor and see
you can still buy this book -THE MARKETING OF A WEAPON.The book was
produced by Gary Nivaggi, in Dec. 1994. In the late 50's and early
60's, many varieties, styles and calibers of the MC rifles were
offered at low prices. ( I recently sold my copy on eBay.)
Nivaggi has photo-copied, from he pages of "American Rifleman" the
marketing of the weapon for the years 1958-1964. Included are full
sized copies of Klein's Sporting Goods ads . Also, ads from various
other dealers and distributors, all selling MCs and MC ammo. The book
contains questions regarding the MC; various ammo loads for it; its
clip, and other great information about the stopping and "knockdown"
capabilities of firearm projectiles. All from the pages of American
Many questions being asked will all be answered if you own THE
MARKETING OF A WEAPON.
Another book that will provide valuable information that comes from a
real expert on the Carcano. Contact Richard Hobbs, 3958 Cambridge Rd.
# 162, Cameron Park, CA 95682. (Last address I have of Hobbs) Search
bio on Hobbs
Hobbs is a collector of Carcanos since 1945 and probably knows more
about the weapon than anyone in this country. His book: THE CARCANO
Italy's Military Rifle.(About $18.00) He is not a JFK "BUFF."- but he
sure knows that weapon. If you own these two books, you will hardly
ever have a question about the Carcano again.
Also see: http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/
"The sling is not a standard rifle sling but appears to be a musical
instrument strap or a sling from a carrying case or camera bag." 3H
397 SA Frazier, FBI.
The sling on the TSBD rifle was a part of a U.S. Air Force holster
and harness set, patented by Norris N. Murray, on March 6, 1956,
No. 2,819,830. ( see U.S. Military Holsters and Pistol cartridge
Boxes By Edward Scott Meadows, 1987 , 376.)
And, the alleged Oswald (TSBD) rifle was not just another Italian
surplus Carcano. The rifle was part of a small lot of rifles that
were specially ordered to be the rifles of the Guardie del Duce, an
group of one hundred men charged with the job of guarding Mussolini .
The stocks were thinner, lighter and were dyed black. ( R.HOBBS, The
Carcano, Italy's Military Rifle)
And, it was not the rifle that LHO had delivered in the spring of
1963. The TSBD weapon was a longer rifle by four inches with sling
swivels on the side of the rifle. The backyard photo rifle had the
swivels on the bottom . The problem!! The rifle delivered from
Klein's had the serial number C-2766. So did the TSBD rifle . That
can't be, unless someone changed the number, which would have been
very easy to do. This weapon had the serial number on the back end of
the barrel, where it screws into the receiver . A simple matter of
minutes to remove and not much more to remove and replace the serial
number. Which means, if I am right, the rifle in the National
Archives has a number that it did not have prior to 11-22-63.
From Martha Moyer, well known to the JFK assassination community.:
"Do you know how easy it is to change a SN on a rifle? I do!!!
About six months ago I considered having the SN on my MC changed to
C2766. The gunsmith told me "no problem - in fact, quite simple" (Oh,
by the way, my MC is a 36") If I wanted to frame somebody - I would
get the serial number of their gun - registered to them - find a
duplicate and change to their SN. I would then leave it at the scene
of the crime"
Numerous people have compared the photos taken by Marina with photos
of the murder weapon and agree that they are not the same weapon.
SEE THE SECOND CARCANO
Its a matter of record that there was another MC rifle with the
#2766, that found its way from Montreal to Chicago.The Chicago vendor
Alden's. This was the only MC with that number. Italy used the same
numbering system as Germany
The Italian arms manufacturers used the same consecutive marking
system that the Germans used for identification, serial numbers,
manufacturing plant, etc.. It began with a three digit serial number,
progressed through the thousand numbers. Example: 000-9999, then
began a prefix system. Example: A 111- A 9999. This progressed through
alphabet -A-Z and AA-ZZ, etc..This system can be better understood by
looking at the serial numbers on the 100 rifles delivered to Klein's
in Feb. 1963. See Warren - Waldman exhibit #4. It is almost certain ,
since there were hundreds of thousands of rifles, many would have the
same number, however the prefix would be different. The FBI did
locate a rifle with the serial number 2766, while the LHO rifle was
Numbering system information is from BOOK OF RIFLES by W.H.B.Smith
and Joseph Smith Forward by J.B. Sweet Brig,
Gen,USA Ret, senior editor Copyright 1948 by The
National Rifle Association (Great book to own)
The invoice of Empire Wholesale Sporting Goods, Limited ,in Montreal
Canada, dated June 29, 1962, reflects the sale of 700 used Italian
rifles to Century Arms of St. Albens, Vermont. Exhibit D 156 was
furnished by the owner of Century Arms on March 11, 1964 to the FBI.
ORIGINAL LIST of serial numbers of 700 Carcano Italian carbines
Received by Century Arms, Inc, from Empire: Serial number 2766
appears on last page of numbers (Exhibit D 103)
See COMM. Exhibit No. 2562 # 13 Warren Report
It is almost impossible that two Carcanos would have
identical serial numbers unless someone altered them. (which I
suspect was done in Dallas to frame LHO)
Meagher dealt with the 2766 serial number, but at the time, didn't
understand the numbering system or the Canada connection.
By the way, all serial numbers were not on the barrel. Some were on
the receiver, and even on the stock, some on more than one place.
John Cahill, in VA, has four Carcanos and two serial numbers are on
receiver, two on the barrel.
There is so much to be explained about how and where the Carcanos
were made that it could never be done on this forum. Guns marked Terni
not have been made there. They could have been made in a small plant
elsewhere and called the Terni rifle. Some parts were made in small
plants and assembled at Terni, thus the Terni name .
Because the guns looked alike, (the 7.35 mm and the 6.5 mm ) the
manufacturers stamped 7.35 on the stock of some weapons so the
troops knew what ammo to use.
Want to bet that it is a different rifle than the one bought in the
spring to kill Walker? Want to bet that the serial number now on that
weapon is not the original number? I do. And I would ask Ruth Paine
just who entered her garage and removed the old MC of Oswalds after
he left for work so it would never be found and traced to the murder
that was to happen at 12:30 downtown from Irving. Ask Ruth if the
was her friend SA Bardwell "Bard" D. Odum who was waiting in the
house next door to the Paines (used to monitor the Oswalds) and left
her light on in the garage when he left? Ruth knows.
Simple, easy. Anyone could do the same thing with a weapon to change
a serial number and frame another person. And with simple acid
chemicals, the original serial number can be revealed. Lee was a
patsy after all and it will be the weapon in the Archives that will
prove it. Do it now or do it later,- history will use the Archives MC
to prove that the whole assassination was a planned murder of Kennedy
by the people who hated him the most and had the most to
lose..-----.The oil companies, the Mafia and the Pentagon