Volume V Page 218
WADE. 7, 7:30, something like that. I
got home, say, 9:30 or 10, after eating dinner, and I believe I talked to the
U.S. attorney or at least I saw it come on
the radio that they are going to file on Oswald as part of an international
conspiracy in murdering the U.S. President, and I think I talked to
Barefoot Sanders. He called me or I called him.
RANKIN. I wanted to get for the record, Mr. Wade, who would be trying to file
WADE. I don't know. All I know it
wasn't me. It was told to me at one
time that the justice of the peace said something about it and another one, one
of my assistants, Alexander had said something about it and I have talked to
both of them since and both of them deny so I don't know who suggested it or
anything but it was on the radio and I think on television.
know I heard it and I am not sure where.
RANKIN. Can you tell us whether it was from your office or from a Federal office
that such an idea was developing as far as you know?
WADE. Well, on that score it doesn't make any sense at all to me because there
is no such crime in Texas, being part of an international conspiracy, it is just
murder with malice in Texas, and if you allege anything else in an indictment
you have to prove it and it is all surplusage in an indictment to allege
anything, whether a man is a John Bircher or a Communist or anything, if you
allege it you have to prove it.
when I heard it I went down to the police station and took the charge on him,
just a case of simple murder.
DULLES. Is that of Tippit or of the President?
TX Attorney General
Waggoner Carr also discusses “International Conspiracy” in Volume V.
Volume V Pages 258-60
OF WAGGONER CARR
you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before the Commission
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
CARR. I do.
CHAIRMAN. Be seated, please. Proceed, Mr. Rankin.
RANKIN. Mr. Carr, will you state your name and position for the record?
CARR. I am Waggoner Carr, attorney general of the State of
RANKIN. And you are a practicing lawyer, are you?
CARR. Yes, sir; before I was elected, I was practicing law in
RANKIN. You are the same Waggoner Carr who has participated from time to time in
observing these hearings and cooperating with the Commission regarding its work?
RANKIN. Insofar as the State of
RANKIN. Were you here when Henry Wade was testifying with regard to a
conversation between himself and yourself, this morning?
CARR. Yes, sir.
RANKIN. Would you relate to us that conversation as you recall it, both what you
said and what he said?
CARR. As I recall, it was around 8 or 9 o'clock at night on November 22, 1963,
when I received a long-distance telephone call from
A rumor had been heard here that there was going to be an allegation in
the indictment against Oswald connecting the assassination with an international
conspiracy, and the inquiry was made whether I had any knowledge of it, and I
told him I had no knowledge of it.
a matter of fact, I hadn't been in
the request was made of me to contact Mr. Wade to find out if that allegation
was in the indictment.
received the definite impression that the concern of the caller was that because
of the emotion or the high tension that existed at that time that someone might
thoughtlessly place in the indictment such an allegation without having the
proof of such a conspiracy. So I did
call Mr. Wade from my home, when I received the call, and he told me very much
what he repeated to you today, as I recall, that he had no knowledge of anyone
desiring to have that or planning to have that in the indictment; that it would
be surplusage, it was not necessary to allege it, and that it would not be in
there, but that he would doublecheck it to be sure.
And then I called back, and--as I recall I did--and informed the White
House participant in the conversation of what Mr. Wade had said, and that was
all of it.
RANKIN. Was there anything said to you at any time by anybody from
CARR. Oh, no; absolutely not. There
was no direct talk or indirect talk or insinuation that the facts, whatever they
might be, should be suppressed. It
was simply that in the tension someone might put something in an indictment for
an advantage here or disadvantage there, that could not be proved, which would
have very serious reaction, which the local person might not anticipate since he
might not have the entire picture of what the reaction might be.
RANKIN. Thank you. That is all I
have, Mr. Chief Justice.
CHAIRMAN. Mr. Attorney General, I don't know whether you will be testifying on
any other subject before the Commission or not, but in the event that you do
not, and both of. us are not here in the Commission again at the same time, I
want to say to you for the record that from the very beginning of our
investigation your cooperation has been complete, it has been enthusiastic, and
it has been most helpful to the Commission.
Commission and I all appreciate it very much indeed.
CARR. Well, thank you, sir. I will
say this, that it has been a very pleasant experience for us, and I think set a
good example of how a State government and a Federal Government can cooperate
together where we have common objectives such as this, where we are trying to
determine the facts and nothing else.
DULLES. May I add my voice to that, Mr. Chief Justice?
CHAIRMAN. Yes; indeed, you may.
DULLES. I know that has been true as far as I am personally concerned, and
during our trip to
CHAIRMAN. Yes, indeed.
DULLES. Was there any indication in the call from the White House as to whether
this was a leftist, rightist, or any other type of conspiracy or, as far as you
recall, was just the word "conspiracy" used?
Mr. CARR. As far as I recall, it was an international conspiracy.
This was the idea, but I don't know whether the word
"Communist" was used or not, Mr. Dulles.
It could have been, or maybe I just assumed that if there was a
conspiracy it would only be a Communist conspiracy.
I don't know which it was, but it was a perfectly natural call.
circumstances that existed at the time, knowing them as I did, and the tension
and the high emotion that was running rampant there, it was not inconceivable
that something like that could have been done, you understand., without any
thought of harming anyone or any thought of having to prove it, as long as you
didn't know that under our Texas law you have to prove every allegation made in
an indictment. If you didn't know
that, it might seem logical that someone might put something like that into an
indictment, factual or not.
DULLES. Thank you very much.
CARR. But there was no such thing going on.
CHAIRMAN. Well, General, I think that will be all then.
Thank you very much.
CARR. Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN. The Commission is adjourned.
at 2:50 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
If Texas Attorney General Waggoner Carr did NOT know who called him from Washington;
HOW did he know WHO to Call Back in Washington???
"Oh Lucy....You got some splainin to do ! ! !"
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