Below we see that Several Anti-Castro Cuban organizations were housed at 3126 Harlendale.  Along with the FPCC ! ! !                               FBI Report

Including the FPCC (Fair Play For Cuba Committee) ! ! !

For Further illustration of how Intelligence Agencies operate SEE>>>   http://whokilledjfk.net/church.htm

Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers reported that Oswald was seen at 3126 Harlendale in Dallas. 

Below we see that Several Anti-Castro Cuban organizations were housed at 3126 Harlendale.

Including the FPCC (Fair Play For Cuba Committee) ! ! !

For Further illustration of how Intelligence Agencies operate SEE>>>   http://whokilledjfk.net/church.htm

544 Camp Street in New Orleans was a HUB for "Anti-Castro Activities by Anti Castro Cubans who were subsidized by the CIA.

Below are pages from Volume X of the HSCA.

544 CAMP STREET

POSNER (p. 141): "There simply is no credible evidence that Oswald ever had an office at 544 Camp Street or, much less, that he knew Guy Banister." Posner notes: 1. The HSCA "questioned six other individuals who worked for Guy Banister during the summer of 1963, and none of them recalled seeing Oswald at 544 Camp." (p. 139). The HSCA (X p. 128) lists seven witnesses who didn't see Oswald there: 4 worked there in the summer of 1963, one left in 1958, one left in January 1962, and one was a visitor who visited only through 1962. "Several witnesses recommended the Committee speak with Jack Martin or Delphine Roberts since they were in most contact with Banister." (HSCA X p. 129)Posner dismisses the following: 1. Oswald's leaflets were stamped " 544 Camp St. ," the address of the building in which Banister's office was housed. Posner correctly notes that Sam Newman, the building's owner, told the FBI he never rented to Oswald (HSCA X p. 123). This avoids the question of whether someone else rented an office for him, which is what might be expected if Oswald was working for Banister. 2. The testimony of Jack Martin, who said he saw Oswald with David Ferrie in Banister's office in 1963 (HSCA X p. 130). He was a not particularly reliable drunk who worked as an investigator for Banister. Sam Newman told HSCA that Martin was in Banister's office "90 percent of the time; every day almost" and he "kept up with all that stuff."(HSCA X p. 135, note 104) 3. The testimony of Delphine Roberts, Banister's secretary and mistress, that Banister kept a file on Oswald that "was kept out of the original files" (the Louisiana State Police confirmed Banister had a file on the FPCC and Oswald: HSCA X p. 131), that Banister was angry Oswald stamped 544 Camp St. on his leaflets, and that Oswald came into the office "on several occasions."(HSCA X p. 129) She also said Banister told her, when she reported Oswald's leafletting to him, that "He's with us. He's associated with the office." (Anthony Summers, Conspiracy, 1991 ed., p. 295) Posner notes that she is extreme right-wing, a religious nut and was paid for her interview with Anthony Summers (pp. 140-41), none of which proves she was lying. Banister friend and associate Ivan Nitschke told HSCA:"If you were trying to explore this to the fullest extent, I would say that Delphine would be No. 1."(HSCA X p. 135, note 104). Roberts told Summers Oswald worked for Banister. (Conspiracy, op. cit., pp. 294-5).He ignores the following: 1. James Arthus' statement to the Secret Service that a man whose name he didn't recall had tried to rent an office at 544 Camp Street . (HSCA X p. 125); he gave them the name of the woman who had dealt with the man, but she was never questioned. (Just as Banister was never asked about Oswald.) 2. The statement of Ross Banister, Guy's brother, that he knew Guy had an interest in Oswald, though he didn't think they were connected (HSCA X p. 128). 3. The statement of Ivan Nitschke, the Banister friend and associate, that Banister had some of Oswald's handbills in his office (HSCA X p. 128). 4. Banister's widow Mary confirmed this to Andrew Sciambra of Jim Garrison's office (Anthony Summers, Conspiracy, op. cit., p. 292). She found a supply of the leaflets in her late husband's storeroom (Warren Hinckle and William Turner, Deadly Secrets, p. 234). 5. Banister employees Allen and Daniel Campbell. Daniel reported that Oswald came into Banister's office and used the desk phone. Allen reports that instead of reacting with his usual anger at pro-Castro activities, Banister merely laughed when Oswald's leafletting was mentioned. (Conspiracy, op. cit., p. 293). 6. Another young Banister employee, George Higginbothan, said he kidded Banister "about sharing a building with people papering the streets with leftist literature." Banister responded:"Cool it--one of them is mine." (Hinckle and Turner, Deadly Secrets, pp. 234-5) 7. Adrian Alba, whose office Oswald regularly visited, reported seeing Oswald in Mancuso's restaurant, on the ground floor of 544 Camp St. (Conspiracy, op. cit., p. 296). The restaurant was frequented by Banister. The restaurant's owner described Banister, David Ferrie and Jack Martin as regular customers.(HSCA X p. 125). 8. CIA operative William George Gaudet reported seeing Oswald with Banister. (Conspiracy op. cit., p. 444). 9. Southern Louisiana University historian Michael Kurtz knew that Oswald and Banister twice visited the Louisiana State University campus together and engaged in heated discussions with students; he was, at the time, one of the students. He also saw the two together at Mancuso's (Kurtz, Crime of the Century, 1993 edition, p. 203, xxxix). Witnesses he interviewed for an earlier article reported seeing Oswald and Banister together at Mancuso's "with David Ferrie and Carlos Quiroga"; Oswald was seen entering Banister's office "several times"; one of Oswald's co-workers at the Reily Coffee Co. saw Oswald and Banister walking together on Camp St.; another witness reported the two attended a White Citizens' Council meeting (reminiscent of the meetings Oswald is known to have attended in Dallas). (Kurtz, "Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans: A Reappraisal," Louisiana History vol. 21, Winter 1980). 10. Another intriguing confirmation comes from Chuck Giancana, brother of Chicago Mafia boss Sam Giancana, who reported Sam told him that Banister was affiliated with the Chicago Mob from his FBI days in Chicago : "We know [him]...real well." (Sam and Chuck Giancana, Double Cross, p. 211) He was transferred to Marcello in New Orleans (ibid., p. 255), where the Chicago-affiliated roving Mob ambassador Johnny Rosselli kept in touch with him and approved his manipulation of Oswald (ibid., pp. 332-3). 11. Further confirmation comes from Through the Looking Glass: The Mysterious World of Clay Shaw by William Davy: New Orleans attorney Tommy Baumler, formerly an infiltrator of left-wing college groups for Banister, told interviewers in 1981 that 

"Oswald worked for Banister." .

LHO-BANNISTER

   Kurtz may have included his account in his earlier Lousiana History

article. In the book he tends to avoid using himself as a witness,

perhaps feeling there was already enough evidence tying Oswald and

Banister (hardly an "explosive" claim by 1982), but he added the account

in his introduction to the paperback edition.

   I don't know if Andrews is credible or not. He may be on some things.

   Banister/Leaflets: Hinckle and Turner report that widow Mary

Banister, gathering up Guy's effects at 544 Camp St. after his death,

found a "large stack" of Fair Play leaflets. Delphine Roberts, who knew

Banister's office as well as anyone (being his secretary and mistress),

told Anthony Summers that Fair Play leaflets were kept in an office

upstairs from the regular office, as Banister didn't want them in his

normal business office. Her daughter confirmed that Oswald had an office

there where he kept political literature. Summers says Andrew Sciambra's

interview of Mary Banister indicated she found "a number of" the

leaflets.

    However many leaflets Banister had, it's ludicrous to continue to

act as though no Banister-Oswald connection has been proven. Here is a

summary of the evidence:

    1. Oswald's leaflets were stamped " 544 Camp St. ," the address of the

building in which Banister's office was housed. Posner correctly notes

that Sam Newman, the building's owner, told the FBI he never rented to

Oswald (HSCA X p. 123). This avoids the question of whether someone else

rented an office for him, which is what might be expected if Oswald was

working for Banister.

    2. The testimony of Jack Martin, who said he saw Oswald with David

Ferrie in  Banister's office in 1963 (HSCA X p. 130). He was a not

particularly reliable drunk who worked as an investigator for Banister.

Sam Newman told HSCA that Martin was in Banister's office "90 percent of

the time; every day almost" and he "kept up with all that stuff."(HSCA X

p. 135, note 104)

    3. The testimony of Delphine Roberts, Banister's secretary and

mistress, 

 that Banister kept a file on Oswald that "was kept out of the original

files" (the Louisiana State Police confirmed Banister had a file on the

FPCC and Oswald: HSCA X p. 131),  that Banister was angry Oswald stamped

544 Camp St. on his leaflets, and that Oswald came into the office "on

several occasions."(HSCA X p. 129) She also said Banister told her, when

she reported Oswald's leafletting to him, that "He's with us. He's

associated with the office." (Anthony Summers, Conspiracy, 1991 ed., p.

295) Posner notes that she is extreme right-wing, a religious nut and

was paid for her interview with Anthony Summers (pp. 140-41), none of

which proves she was lying. Banister friend and associate Ivan Nitschke

told HSCA:"If you were trying to explore this to the fullest extent, I

would say that Delphine would be No. 1."(HSCA X p. 135, note 104).

Roberts told Summers Oswald worked for Banister. (Conspiracy, op. cit.,

pp. 294-5).

PLUS:

    1. James Arthus' statement to the Secret Service that a man whose

name he didn't recall had tried to rent an office at 544 Camp Street .

(HSCA X p. 125); he gave them the name of the woman who had dealt with

the man, but she was never questioned. (Just as Banister was never asked

about Oswald.)

    2. The statement of Ross Banister, Guy's brother, that he knew Guy

had an interest in Oswald, though he didn't think they were connected

(HSCA X p. 128).

    3. The statement of Ivan Nitschke, the Banister friend and

associate, that Banister had some of Oswald's handbills in his office

(HSCA X p. 128).  

    4. Banister's widow Mary confirmed this to Andrew Sciambra of Jim

Garrison's office (Anthony Summers, Conspiracy, op. cit., p. 292). She

found a supply of the leaflets in her late husband's storeroom ( Warren

Hinckle and William Turner, Deadly Secrets, p. 234).

    5. Banister employees Allen and Daniel Campbell. Daniel reported

that Oswald came into Banister's office and used the desk phone. Allen

reports that instead of reacting with his usual anger at pro-Castro

activities, Banister merely laughed when Oswald's leafletting was

mentioned. (Conspiracy, op. cit., p. 293).

    6. Another young Banister employee, George Higginbothan, said he

kidded Banister "about sharing a building with people papering the

streets with leftist literature." Banister responded:"Cool it--one of

them is mine." (Hinckle and Turner, Deadly Secrets, pp. 234-5)

    7. Adrian Alba, whose office Oswald regularly visited, reported

seeing Oswald in Mancuso's restaurant, on the ground floor of 544 Camp

St. (Conspiracy, op. cit., p. 296). The restaurant was frequented by

Banister. The restaurant's owner described Banister, David Ferrie and

Jack Martin as regular customers.(HSCA X p. 125).

    8. CIA operative William George Gaudet reported seeing Oswald with

Banister. (Conspiracy op. cit., p. 444).

    9. Southern Louisiana University historian Michael Kurtz knew that

Oswald and Banister twice visited the Louisiana State University campus

together and engaged in heated discussions with students; he was, at the

time, one of the students. He also saw the two together at Mancuso's

(Kurtz, Crime of the Century, 1993 edition, p. 203, xxxix). Witnesses he

interviewed for an earlier article reported seeing Oswald and Banister

together at Mancuso's "with David Ferrie and Carlos Quiroga"; Oswald was

seen entering Banister's office "several times"; one of Oswald's

co-workers at the Reily Coffee Co. saw Oswald and Banister walking

together on Camp St. ; another witness reported the two attended a White

Citizens' Council meeting (reminiscent of the meetings Oswald is known

to have attended in Dallas ). (Kurtz, "Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans :

A Reappraisal," Louisiana History vol. 21, Winter 1980).

   10. Another intriguing confirmation comes from Chuck Giancana,

brother of Chicago Mafia boss Sam Giancana, who reported Sam told him

that Banister was affiliated with the Chicago Mob from his FBI days in

Chicago : "We know [him]...real well." (Sam and Chuck Giancana, Double

Cross, p. 211) He was transferred to Marcello in New Orleans (ibid., p.

255), where the Chicago-affiliated roving Mob ambassador Johnny Rosselli

kept in touch with him and approved his manipulation of Oswald (ibid.,

pp. 332-3).

     11. Further confirmation comes from Through the Looking Glass: The

Mysterious World of Clay Shaw by William Davy: New Orleans attorney

Tommy Baumler, formerly an infiltrator of left-wing college groups for

Banister, told interviewers in 1981 that "Oswald worked for Banister."

HSCA VOLUME X 544 CAMP ST.

1III. 544 CAMP STREET AND RELATED EVENTS

(460) On August 9, 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested on Canal

Street in New Orleans and charged with disturbing the peace . (1) The

arrest was the result of a confrontation with anti-Castro Cuban exile

Carlos Bringuier and two of his associates, Miguel Cruz and Celso

Hernandez.(2) Oswald was handing out pro-Castro leaflets (3) when

Bringuier, Hernandez and Cruz approached him. (4) When Hernandez

tried to take the leaflets from Oswald, a shouting match began ; (5) the

New Orleans police then intervened, arresting all four individuals. (6)

(461) Samples of Oswald's literature were confiscated by the police.

(7) One of the pamphlets bore the hand-stamped imprint of an

address for the pro-Castro Fair Play for Cuba Committee-of which

Oswald was the president and only member in New Orleans-as "544

Camp Street, New Orleans, La." (8)

(462) This pamphlet was among the materials turned over by the

New Orleans police department to the Secret Service following the

assassination. (9) The Secret Service and theFBI then set out to investigate

the 544 Camp Street address. (10) These agencies established

several facts :

(463) The address had been stamped with a home printing kit in the

same manner Oswald had stamped other literature with his alias "A. J.

Hidell" or "L. H. Oswald,"(11) indicating it was by Oswald's own

hand that the 544 Camp Street address was printed on the pamphlet.

(464) It was learned also that Oswald had written to the national

president of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, Vincent T. Lee, on

August 1, 1963, 8 days before his arrest.(12) In the letter, Oswald

mentioned he had rented an office for his local FPCC chapter, but was

told to vacate after 3 days because the building was to be remodeled.

(13)

(465) The FBI and the Secret Service investigation apparently focused

on whether or not Oswald actually had rented an office at the 544

Camp Street address. (14)

(466) In interviews with the FBI and the Secret Service, the building

owner, Sam Newman, denied renting an office to Oswald. ( .41 .5)

Others renting office space at 544 Camp Street were questioned, but

none recalled seeing Oswald at the Newman Building or elsewhere in

New Orleans. (16)

(467) During the course of that investigation, however, the Secret

Service received information that an office in the Newman Building

had been rented to the Cuban Revolutionary Council from October

1961 through February 1962.(17) Leaders of the CRC were contacted

and asked if they had any association with or knowledge of Oswald

or the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. (18) The Cubans said they had

none because they had vacated the building 15 months prior to Oswald's

appearance in New Orleans. (19)

(123)

124

(466) The investigation of a possible connection between Oswald

and the 544 Camp Street address was closed . (20) The 1'Varren Coinmission

findings concurred with the Secret Service report that no addit

ional evidence had been found to indicate Oswald ever maintained an

office at the 544 Camp Street address. (21)

(469) The committee investigated the possibility of a connection

between Oswald and 544 Camp Street and developed evidence pointing

to a different result .

(470) The committee learned that the Newman Building occupied

the corner lot facing Lafayette Square . On one side its address was

44 Camp Street . (22) Its other entrance was addressed 531 Lafayette

Street . (23) It was a three-story granite structure owned and operated

by Sam Newman as a rental income property for commercial

offices. (24) .

(471) The committee interviewed Sam Newman and other witnesses

to obtain a complete list of the occupants of the building for the

period from May 1963. when Oswald arrived in New Orleans, to September

1963, when he departed .

(472) Newman told the committee he had great difficulty renting

space in the building. (2-5) Consequently, there were few tenants there

in the summer of 1963. The Camp Street address was the main entrance

to offices for two workers' associations : the Hotel, Motel, and

Restaurant Workers' Union and the Amalgamated Association of

street Electric Railway and Motor Coach Employees of America. (26)

It was also the entrance that led to the quarters of the building's janitor,

James Arthus . (2i) There was only one office at the Lafayette

Street address, that of Guy Banister Associates, a private investigative

firm. (28) The offices once rented by the Cuban Revolutionary Council

at 544 Camp Street still lay empty. (29) "Mancuso's," a small coffee

shop, was located on the ground floor with its own entrance onto the

corner of Camp and Lafayette Streets. (30)

(473) The committee located and interviewed individuals associated

with these organizations. Whenever possible, the committee obtained

relevant records from the organizations to check for any link to Oswald

or persons implicated in the assassination investigation. Thecommittee

investigation produced no evidence of any connection between

Oswald and any person or organizations occupying the Newman

Building in 1963, except for that involving Guy Banister's private

detective agency.

(474) Before discussion of the investigation of the Banister office,

this material sets forth the results of the investigation into the other

occupants of 544 Camp Street .

(475) The Hotel, Motel, and Restaurant Employees Union is known

today as the Hotel and Restaurant Employees and Bartenders' Union

(International) . (31) Although the committee was unable to locate

personnel who had worked in the office at 544 Camp Street and had

been interviewed by the Secret Service following the assassination, the

committee did obtain a "master" membership list from the union. (32)

The lists contained names of members for the years 1962 through 1964

that were studied for names of associates of Oswald or others of interest

in the investigation. Among the names appearing on the list as it

member from October 30, 1962, "through April 1963" was Kerry

125

Thornley,(33) who had been an acquaintance of Oswald's for "3 or 4

months" in 1959 when both were stationed at the El Toro Marine Corps

base in Santa Ana, Calif. (34) Later, Thornley learned of Oswald's

defection to the Soviet Union from newspaper accounts. (35) Thornley

found the story so interesting that he set out to write a novel based

on Oswald's defection. (36)

(476) Nevertheless, the committee's investigation of Kerry Thornley

uncovered nothing of significance in the appearance name of Thornley's on the list of members of the union. As reflected in the union's

records, Thornley dropped his membership after April 1963. (37)

Thornley had left New Orleans to travel to California and Mexico and

did not return to New Orleans until August 1963,(38) leaving little

overlap of time in which Oswald and Thornley could have possibly

come in contact.

(477) Thornley firmly denied contact with Oswald at 544 Camp

Street in New Orleans or at any time since his Marine Corps

days. (39) His statements have been corroborated and no evidence has

been found to contradict him.

(478) The committee also located and interviewed George S. Gay,

present preeident of the Amalgamated Association of Street Electric

Railway and Motor Employees of America. (40) Gay has been president

of the union since 1:M0 (.,1r1) and confirmed for the committee that

the union's office was located in the Newman Building in 1963. (1r2) While Gay reiterated what he had told Secret Service agents, that he

did not recall ever seeing Oswald in the building, (.l3) he told the committee

he was not in the office very much due to frequent business

trips.(44) He said he did not mingle with the other tenants in the

building. (4.5) Gay believed the union's secretary at the time, Mrs.

Eugenia Donnelly, would have more information about others in the

Newman Building . (.46) Subsequent attempts to locate Donnelly proved

futile and she was believed deceased. (1,7) Unfortunately, she was not

questioned by investigating officials following the assassination of

President Kennedy.

(479) Tack Mancuso, owner of Mancuso's Coffee Shop located on the

ground floor of the Newman Building, was interviewed by committee

investigators and questioned about his customers. (.48) Mancuso recalled

that Guy Banister and his associates Jack Martin and David

Ferrie were "steady" customers, but Mancuso could not personally

recall ever having seen Oswald. (a,9) Mancuso was not interviewed by

FBI or Secret Service agents following the assassination. (50)

(480) James Arthus was interviewed by Secret Service agents im- mediately following the assassination. (51) He told the agents that an

unknown man had attempted to rent an office at 544 Camp Street, but

that he had discouraged him. (52) Arthus could not describe the man

and recommended the agents speak with "Mrs. Downing," presumed

to be Mrs. Donnelly, since she had also seen the man and could possibly

provide a description of him. (53) As pointed out above, Mrs. Donnelly

was not interviewed by either the Secret Service or the FBI on

this matter . The committee learned that Arthus died in 1967. (51.)

(481) The FBI and the Secret Service apparently failed to apuestion

all the occupants of 544 Camp Street, including a witness who may

have had information about a man who had attempted to rent space

43-944-79-9

12 6

there. While the FBI did speak to GuyBanister, there is no indication

from the report of that interview that Banister was asked any questions

about Oswald. Instead, he was asked about Serigo Arcacha

Smith and the Cuban Revolutionary Council. (55)

(482) The overall investigation of the 544 Camp Street issue at the

time of the assassination was not thorough. It is not surprising, then,

that significant links were never discovered during the original investigation.

The committee concentrated on an investigation of the

activities and individuals in and around the office of Guy Banister,

since this was the area of the least investigation in the days following

the assassination. Various resources were consulted by the committee

for information regarding Banister and his colleagues. These included

: original documents from Banister's office collected during the

1967-69 investigation into the Kennedy assassination by the New Orleans

District Attorney ; investigative reports of the district attorney's

office dating from that investigation ; materials amassed during the

1961-63 investigation of David Ferric by Federal Aviation Administration

officials including transcripts of Ferrie's grievance hearings :

information obtained from Aaron Kohn of the Metropolitan Crime

Commission of \ev- Orlewis : and information obtained from reviews

of relevant files of the FBI, Secret Service, DOD and CIA. In addition,

the committee interviewed several surviving witnesses, many of

whom had worked for or with GuyBanister.

X483) According to one of Banister's own biographical sketches

dated March 1964, he was born in a log cabin in rural Louisiana in

1901, the eldest of 7 children.(56) He started his career in criminal

justice with the police department of Monroe, La. (57) In 1934, he became

a special agent for the agency of the Department of Justice that

was soon to be named the Federal Bureau of Investigation. (58)

Banister served in the FBI for 20 years, 17 of those years as special

agent in charge . (59) He retired in 1954 to become assistant superintendent

for the New Orleans Police Department and was assigned

the task of investi_-atin;!~, police corruption .(6(1) After a fallinm out

with the mayor of 'Yew Orleans, allegedly over Banister's attempt to

have the mayor indicted on charges of "malfeasance, etc.", Banister

quit public service and formed his own private detective agency, Guy

Banister Associates, Inc. (61)

(484) According to FBI files reviewed by committee staff, Banister

also became excessively active in anti-Communist activities after his

separation from the FBI and testified before various investigating

bodies abort the dangers of communism. (62) The CIA file on Guy

Banister indicated the agency considered in September 1960 r1sing Guy

Banister Associates for the collection of foreign intelligence, but ultimately

decided against it (63), for several reasons. (6l4) Early in 1961,

Banister helped draw up a charter for the Friends of Democratic

Cuba, an organization set up as the fundraising arm of Sergio Arcacha

Smith's branch of the Cuban Revolutionary Council. (65) Banister

described his work for the Council

Our work was primarily to gather food and clothing for

the refugees. However because of my being known in con127

nection with that, [and] my background being known with

Arcacha Smith and others, I have had high-ranking Cuban

refugees in my office asking me how to go underground, and

I gave them diagrams for that. I have talked to military and

political leaders from the various provinces of Cuba that have

slipped out and slipped back. (66)

(485) The FBI files also indicate Banister was performing another

service for the Cuban exile group. IIe ran background investigations

on those Cuban students on the cainpus of Louisiana State lJniversitv

n-lio wished to be ineml)ers of Arcacha Smith's anti-Castro group,

ferreting out any pro-Castro sympathizers who might be among

them. (G''~) Banister also talked Sam Ne«-man into leasing 544 Camp

Street to the Cuban Revolutionary Council. (68)~~

(486) It was probably a result of such anti-Castro activities that

Banister became acquainted i~ith David Ferrie . Ferrie, an Eastern

Airlines pilot, was also extreinely active in Sergio Arcacha Smith's

anti-Castro group. (69) Ferric shared Banister's anti-Communist and

anti-Castro fervor. (70)

(487) Both Ferric and Banister were implicated in a raid in late

1961 against a mu;iitions depot in l:Iotuna, La., in which varioi :s

weapons, grenades and zinmtmition were stolein.(71) Banister's role

may have been limited to storing the materiel which was reportedly

seen stacked in Banister's back room by several witnesses. (72) Others

who actually participated in the raid, include Andrew Blackmon, a

Ferric associate and foriner C1C11 Air Patrol cadet, and Sergio Arcacha

Sjnith .(73)

(488) In February 1962, Ferrie requested Banister's assistance in

fighting his recent dismissal from Eastern Airlines . (74) Banister investigated

the case for Ferrie's defense to charges brought by the airline

and local New Orleans police of crimes against nature and extoition.

(75) In exchange, Ferrie provided Banister research services,

such as analysis of autopsy reports. (76) Banister worked with Ferrie's

lawyer, G. 11'ray Gill, on this matter until its culmination in Ferrie's

hearing before the Airline Pilot's grievance board in the summer of

1963. (77) Banister testified on Ferrie's behalf during those hearings.

(78) According to the statements of witnesses in the fall of 1963,

Ferrie and Banister worked together again with G. gray Gill for the

defense of New Orleans organized crime head Carlos Dlarcello on a

deportation case. (79) Little is known of Banister's exact contribution

to that investigation which ended in acquittal on the day and at almost

the precise hour that President Kennedy was shot. (80)

(489) The long-standing relationship of Ferric and Banister is significant

since Ferrie became a suspect in the Kennedy assassination

soon after it had occurred. (81) The information to the district attorney's

office that had put the spotlight on Ferric had emanated from

Banister associate, Jack Dlartin.(82) As detailed elsewhere in this

staff report, although Ferric was cleared of suspicion in the assassination

during the original investigation, the committee found evidence

of a possible association between Ferrie and Oswald.

(490) Although Banister was questioned by the FBi following the

assassination in regard to the activities of the CRC at 544 Camp Street,

128

the FBI and the Secret Service failed to discover the significance of

Banister's connection to 544 Camp Street ; Banister's close association

with a suspect in the assassination, David Ferrie ; and Banister's close

association with Ferrie's accuser, Jack Martin-all of which raised

the question of what, if anything, was Banister's relationship to Lee

Harvey Oswald.

(491) Witnesses interviewed by the committee indicate Banister was

aware of Oswald and his Fair Play for Cuba Committee before the

assassination . Banister's brother, Ross Banister, who is employed by

the Louisiana State Police, told the committee that his brother had

mentioned seeing Oswald hand out Fair Play for Cuba literature on

one occasion. (83) Ross Banister theorized Oswald had used the 544

Camp Street address on his literature to embarrass Guy.(&_) Ross

Banister did confirm Guy's interest in the assassination and Osivald,

but knew of no direct association between Oswald and Banister.

(492) Ivan F. "Bill" Nitschke, a friend and business associate and

former FBI agent, (85) corroborates that Banister was cognizant of

Oswald's leaflet distributing. Nitschke was deposed by the committee

in July 1978. (86) He testified that he had known Banister when they

were both in the FBI and for a short time worked for Banister in tho

o{lice in theNewman Building. (87)

(493) Nitschke said he never saw Lee Harvey Oswald at 5-'44 Camp

Street and does not know if Banister ever met Oswald. (88) Nevertheless.

Nitschke recalls that Banister became "interested in Oswald"

during the summer of 1963 when Oswald had been distributing handbills.

(89) Nitschke recalls Banister had some of these handbills in

his office or made reference to them. (90) From the context of the conversation,

however, he was not pleased. (91)

(494) Delphine Roberts, Banister's long-time friend and secretary,

stated to the committee that Banister had become extremely angry

with James Arthus and Sam Newman over Oswald's use of the 544

Camp Street address on his handbills. (92)

(495) The committee questioned Sam Newman regarding Roberts'

allegation. Newman could not recall ever seeing Oswald or renting

space, to him. (93) He did recall . however, asking a young man who

was in the office once used by the Cuban Revolutionary Council to

leave. (9l) Newman did not thin'.; this person was Oswald. (95) Newman

theorized that if Oswald was using the 544 Camp Street address

and had any link to the building, it would have been through a connection

to the Cuban Revolutionary Council or Banister's office . (96)

(496) The committee questioned other individuals once affiliated

with Guy Banister, including : Joseph Newbrough and Vernon Gerdes,

investigators who had worked with Banister in 1963 ; (97) Marv Helen

Brengel, one of two secretaries in Banister's office from approximately

June 1963 to December 1963 ; (98) Louise Decker, a secretary in Banister's

office for the period from October 1961 to January 1962 ; (99)

Joseph Oster, one time partner of Banister's who set up his own private

detective agency, Southern Research, in 1958 ; (100) and Carlos Quiroga,

the Cuban exile who visited Oswald at his home on approximately

An.snist 16, 1963, endeavoring to learn more about the FPCC. (101)

(luiroga told the committee he frequently visited Banister's office and

Mancuso's coffee shop in the company of Sergio Arcacha Smith and

129

David Ferrie when all were heavily involved in Cuban exile activities .

(10°2) Yet this would have been in 1961 and 1962.(10 .:) None of these

individuals recalled seeing Oswald at 544 Camp Street. Several witnesses

recommended the committee speak with Jack Martin or Delphine

Roberts since they were in most contact with Banister . (10_F)

(497) Martin and Roberts have both been interviewed by the committee

on several occasions. Roberts, who initially refused to speak

with the committee staff, told the committee she was very active in

anti-Communist activities in the e-,rly 1960's.(10,5) She said she

worked with Banister as a volunteer typing correspondence, making

files and clipping newspapers because Banister was worl:inn fo,- -what

Roberts believed in . (10(7) Roberts claimed Banister had an extensive

file on Communists and fellow travelers, including one on Lee Harvey

Oswald, which was kept out of the original files because Banister

"never got around to assigning a number to it."(107) Roberts did not

remember what was in the file other than that it contained general

information on Oswald such as newspaper clippings.(108) Rollerts

also related the incident described previolusly in this section in which

Banister became angry over Oswald's use of the Camp Street address.

(10<9) Robertq gave the committee her version of an incident that took

place late in the evening on the day of the assassination. She said Jack

Martin came into the office and approached the area of the office where

the files were kept, when Banister walked in .(110) Banister accused

7kTartin of stealing several files and hiding them in his coat. (111) When

Martin protested, Banister pulled out his minandstruck Martin on the

head, ca?us~ng lug to bleed.(11~) Both men then went into Banister's

private office and continued their discussion beyond Roberts' earshot,

(113)

(494) During another interview, Roberts told the committee that

Oswald came into the office seeking employment and sometime later

bronmllt Marina in with him.(114) Contrary to her statements in the

initial interview, that she had never seen Oswald. she stated that she

saw Oswald come into Banister's office on several occasions. (115)

Because of such con+radictions in Roberts' statements to the committee

and lack of independent corroboration of many of her statements, the

reli9bility of her statements could not be determined.

(499) A_ New Orleans police complaint filed by Jack Martin on November

22, 1963, corroborated Roberts' storv insofar as it established

Banister's assault against Ja ck 1flartin with the pistol . (116) According

to the renort . Martin and Banister had been drinking at a bar nei?hborinrr

the Newman Building, then visited the Banister's office and

became involved in various discussions about "personal and political

snbiects."(117) Thev then began to argue about unanthori7ed longdistance,

telephone calls which Banister accused Martin of malting

from the office . (118) The discussion became more heated and Banister

pulled out a 357 magnum revolver and hit Martin on the head four or

five times with the butt of the gum. (119) When Martin began to bleed,

B,ni-t-r stopped hitting him and Martin went to the restroom to clean

Tern . (1??0) Banister told Martin to watch himself and be careful. (121)

11Tgrtin then went to Charity Hospital for treatment, returned home

and called the police to file the report. (1°2°2) Martin refused to press

charges as Banister was "like a father" to him. (1°23)

130

(500) Martin was questioned by the committee regarding the incident

and for information about Banister's office . Martin told the committee

he is a part-time investigator and writer . as he was in the early

1960's . (121) Martin was one of the members of Banister's investigative

"pool" and was frequently in and out of Banister's office . (125) Martin

told the committee that on November 22, 1963, he was having drinks

with Banister at a local bar and they got into an argument, (126) Thev

went, to BanistWs office and, in the bent, of the quarrel, Banister said

something to which Martin replied, "'"That are you going to do-kill

me like you all did Kennedy?" (12,') Banister drew his pistol and beat

Martin in the head. (_7 ?8) 11artin believed Banister would have killed

him but for the intervention of Banister's secretary, who pleaded with

Banister not to shoot -Martin. (129)

(501) It was the day after this incident that -Martin related his

suspicions about David Ferrie to the New Orleans district attorney's

office . (130) Martin had at one time been a close associate of Ferric.

(131) Ferrie told the FBI he met -Martin in the fall of 1961, probably

not long after Ferrie had met Banister. (132) Martin apparently

shared b'errie's interest in obtaining a position with an ecclesiastical

order, although Ferric insisted he became involved with these religions

orders only to assist Martin in a Department of Health, Education,

and Welfare investigation into the sale of phony certificates of ordination

and consecration .(132) Ferric said he and -Martin had a falling

out, when he put -Martin out of attorney G. Wray Gill's office in June

1963. because Gill did not want Martin "hanging around the office ."

(13!x) Gill said Ferrie and Martin had been "close friends" until they

got involved in an "ecclesiastical deal wherein 'Martin was supposed

to represent a large territory of the Holy Apostolic Catholic Church

of North America."(135) Martin held Ferrie responsible for not getting

the Job and has "slandered Ferrie at every opportunity." (136)

(502) Martin has also told the committee he caw Lee Harvey Oswald

with Ferrie in Guy Banister's office in 1963. (1.37) Nevertheless, in light

of -Martin's previous contradictory statements to authorities shortly

after the assassination in which Martin made no such allegation about

having seen Oswald, (138) it may be argued that credence should not

be placed in Martin's statements to the committee.

(503) The committee sought to trace Banister's office files that had

been reportedly scattered to various individuals or agencies soon after

Banister's death in June 1964.

(504) Mary Banister Wilson, Guy Banister's widow, told the committee

she had not retained any of the files but had given many away

to various organizations . (139) -Mrs. Wilson said she sold some of

Banister's files to the Louisiana State police in a transaction involving

Russell Willie of the State police .(140) She said another portion of

the file was given to Aaron Kohn of the New Orleans Metropolitan

Crime Commission. (141) The committee learned several books from

Banister's collection went to Banister's associate, Kent Courtney. (142)

The rest of Banister's "extensive" librarv of books was donated to the

Louisiana State University Library. (1.~3)

(505) Russell Willie and Joseph Cambre of the Louisiana State Police

confirmed for the committee that they purchased from Mary

Banister in late 1964 a five-drawer file containing file folders belonging

to the late Guy Banister. (14!x) The "half-filled" file cabinet contained

10 large manila folders, each subject titled and numbered. (145) One

of the folders contained a group of 3" by 5" index cards. (116) The index

cards contained numbers and subject headings corresponding to

the file folders in the cabinet. (147) Not all the files listed in the index

were among those files given to the Louisiana State Police ; most of

the files obtained by the State police dealt with Communist groups and

subversive organizations, according to State Police Officer Cambre.

(148) Cambre recalled that although Lee Harvey Oswald's name

was not included among the main subjects of the files, Oswald's name

was included among the main subjects of the file on the Fair Play for

Cuba Committee. (1419) Cambre had read the FPCC file and found

news clippings and a transcript of a radio program in which Oswald

had participated, presumably a transcript of the Augrnst 21, 1963, debate

between Oswald and Carlos Bringuier on WDSU radio. (150)

Unfortunately, this file was routinely destroyed in keeping with the

requirements of the Privacy Act. (151)

(506) Aaron Kohn, managing director of the New Orleans Metropolitan

Crime Commission, acknowledged that he received files from

Mary Banister Wilson after Guy Banister's death. (152) The files

received by Kohn dealt with an investigation of corruption within the

New Orleans Police Department, which Banister had conducted

while he was assistant superintendent of police in New Orleans in the

mid-1950'x . (153)

(507) While the committee was unable to trace or recover all of

Banister's files, a partial index of the files was made available by

Jim Garrison, former district attorney of Orleans Parish, La. (15.x)

Garrison had sent investigators to the Louisiana State Police intelligence

section in 1967 during his investigation into the assassination of

President Kennedy. (155) The index did not include the name of Lee

Harvey Oswald or the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. (156)

(508) Thus, the committee could find no documentary proof that

Banister had a file on Lee Harvey Oswald nor could the committee find

credible witnesses whoever saw Lee Harvey Oswald and Guy Banister

together. There are indications, however, that Banister at least knew

of Oswald's leafletting activities and probably maintained a file on

him. As for Jack Martin's reasons for calling attention to Ferric as a

suspect in the assassination, they may not have been based on personal

knowledge-Martin never claimed such information-but his action

seems to have been based on sincere concerns and some legitimate suspicions.

Consequently, it is not possible to determine definitely the

reasons for Banister's assault on Martin the night of the assassination,

specifically, whether it had anything to do with Martin's suspicions of

Ferric .

(509) The primary import of the 544 Camp Street address must be

analyzed within the contest of evidence of a Ferric-Oswald link. Unfortunately,

the precise nature of their relationship may never be

known.

(510) As can be seen by the committee investigation into Ferrie's associations

and activities throughout his life and especially during the

summer of 1963 . there are several factors which explain why Ferric

and Oswald could have become closely associated, as improbable as

this may seem

(511) A. Both men spent considerable time in the same locale : Ferrie

frequently visited the office of Guy Banister in the building at 544

Camp Street ;* Oswald worked only one block away and had used 544

Camp Street as the address of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. Additionally,

the testimony of a number of witnesses from Clinton, La.,

placing Oswald and Ferrie together in early September 1963, may be

credible . Evidence also exists to support the belief that a Ferrie colleague,

Guy Banister, knew Oswald's pro-Castro leafletting.

(512) B. Both men had similar, fervent interest in political topics,

especially the Cuban question. Although Ferrie stood firmly on the

anti-Castro side of the issue and Oswald was involved in pro-Castro

activities, this alone would not rule out the possibility of an Oswald-

Fe-rrie association.

(513) Oswald, on at least one occasion, made a friendly overture

to a known anti-Castro activist, Carlos Bringuier, the New Orleans

delegate to the Student Revolutionary Directorate (DRE)

and even offered Bringuier assistance in military training of Cuban

exiles . The Oswald-Ferrie association may have begun in the same

manner.

(514) C. Significant to the argument that Oswald and Ferrie were

associated in 1963 is evidence of prior association in 19,55 when Ferrie

was captain of a Civil Air Patrol squadron and Oswald a young cadet.

This pupil-teacher relationship could have greatly facilitated their reacquaintance

and Ferrie's noted ability to influence others could have

been used with Oswald.

(515) D. Ferrie's experience with the underground activities of the

Cuban exile movement and as a private investigator for Carlos

Marcello and Guy Banister might have made him a good candidate

to participate in a conspiracy plot. He may not have known what was

to be the outcome of his actions, but once the assassination had been

successfully completed and his own name cleared, Ferrie. would have

had no reason to reveal his knowledge of the plot. Further, fear for

his life may have prevented himfrom doing so.

(516) While it could not be definitely determined whether Ferrie

had any contact with Oswald after Oswald left New Orleans on

September 24, 1963, until the day of the assassination only 2 months

later, the possible Oswald-Ferrie relationship is a significant Oswald

association.

Submitted by

132

GAETON J. FONZI

Investigator.

PATRICIA M. ORR

Researcher.

*Strangely, although Ferrie seemed to be straightforward during his interviews

with FBI agents in discussing his opposition to Kennedy, his conflict

with Jack Martin, his involvement in the Marcello case, et cetera, Ferrie denied

outright that he had ever known "of the Cuban Revolutionary Front maintaining

an office at 544 Camp Street, nor does he have any knowledge of Sergio Arcacha

Smith maintaining an office at that address during the time he was head of the

organization and later after he was replaced." (157) This is clearly in contradiction

to the accounts of the witnesses on this subject.

133

REFERENCES

(1) Report of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President

Kennedy (Washington, D.C . : U.S. Government Printing Office, 1964), p . 728

(hereinafter cited as the Warren Report) .

(2) Ibid .

(3) Hearings before the President's Commission on the Assassination of President

Kennedy (Washington, D.C. : U.S . Government Printing Office, 1964), vol.

XXVI, CE--2966 A and B (hereinafter cited as Warren Commission Hearings) .

( .~) Warren Report, p . 728 ; Deposition of Carlos Bringnier, May 12, 1978,

House Select Committee on Assassinations, pp. 126-129 (J. F. K. Document

009084) .

(5) Ibid .

(6) Warren Report, p . 826 .

(7) Ibid .

(8) XXVI, Warren Commission Hearings, p. 30, CE-3120, Pamphlet, "The

Crime Against Cuba," Corliss Lamont.

(9) Ibid ., vol . XXVI, p . 11, CE-3119, Secret Service Report, Nov. 30, 1963,

CO-2-34 .030 .

(10) Ibid . ; FBI teletype, FOIA materials, 62-109060-1668, Nov. 26, 1963,

pp. 1-3 .

(11) XXVI, Warren Commission Hearings, CE-2966 A and B.

(12) Ibid., vol. XX, Lee DE-7.

(13) Ibid.

(14) Warren Report, p . 408 ; XXII, Warren Commission Hearings, CE-1414 ;

FBI teletype, FOIA materials, 62-109060-1668, Nov. 26, 1963, pp. 1-3 .

(15) Did. ; XXII, Warren Commission Hearings, CE-1414.

(16) Ibid .

(17) Ibid .

(18) Ibid .

(19) Ibid .

(20) Ibid. ; FBI teletype, FOIA materials, 62-109060-1668, Nov. 26,1963, pp. 1-a

QI) Warren Report, pp. 292 and 408 .

(22) Deposition of Sam Newman, Nov. 6, 1978, House Select Committee on

Assassinations, p. 21 (J . F. K. Document 014020) .

(23) Ibid .

(2/F ) Id . a t p . 5 .

(25) Id . a t p . 22 .

(26) XXII, Warren Commission Hearings, CE-1414, Secret Service Report,

CO-2-34,030 . pp. 4-5.

(27) See ref . 22 .

(28) Id . a t pp. 9,21 .

(29) Td . i t pp. 23-24 .

(°0) Id . a t p. 13.

(31) Outside Contact Report with Attachment, Mrs. Anna Stewart, Apr. 11,

1978, House Select Committee on Assassinations (J. F. K. Document 007364) .

(32) Ibid., attachments : Rosters through October 1962, April 1963 and March

1964.

(33) Ibid ., roster through October 1962, p. 14 (first list) ; roster through April

1963, p. 16 (second list) .

(3l,) FBI teletype, FOIA material, 62-109060-1668, Nov. 26, 1963, p. 9 .

(35) Kerry Thornley affidavit, Jan. 8, 1976, p. 1, House Select Committee on

Assassinations (J. F. K. Document 012740) . (Note : This statement, while rambling

and confusing, remains consistent on the major point that Thornley had no

contact with Oswald after service in the Marines.)

(36) Ibid . : see also testimony of Kerry Thornley, May 18, 1964, XI, Warren

Commission Hearings, pp. 96-97.

(37) Outside Contact Report. Mrs. Anna Stewart, Apr. 11, 1978, House Select

Committee on Assassinations, attachment roster through March 1964 (J. F. X.

Document 007364) .

(38) FBI teletype, FOIA material, 62-109060-1668. Nov. 26, 1963, p. 9.

(39) Ibid. ; Secret Service Report, Dec. 2, 19639 CO-2-34,030 (J. F. K. Document

003675) : Thornley testimony, XI, Warren Commission Hearings, 110 .

(40) Outside Contact Report, George S . Gap, Jan. 13, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations (J. F. K. Document 005191) .

134

(41) XXII, Warren Commission Hearings, CE-1414, Secret Service Report,

CO-2-34,030, Dec. 9, 1963, p. 5.

(12) Outside Contact Report, George C. Gap, Jan. 13, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations (J . F. B. Document 005191) .

(43) Ibid . ; XXII, Warren Commission Hearings, CE-1414, Secret Service Report

. CO-2-34,030, Dec. 9, 1963, p. 5.

(44) See ref. 42.

(45) Ibid .

(46) Ibid .

(47) Outside Contact Report, George S. Gap, re : Eugenia Donnelly, June 6,

1978, House Select Committee on Assassinations (J.F .K. Document 009115) .

(1,8) Outside Contact Report, Jack 'Mancuso, Jan. 26, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations (J. F. K. Document 014120) .

(19) Ibid .

(50) Ibid .

(51) XXVI, Warren Commission Hearings, CE-3119, Secret Service Report,

Nov. 30, 1963, CO-2-34,030, p. 15.

(52) Ibid .

(.5°) Ibid .

(54) Outside Contact Report, re : James Arthus. June 1, 1978, House Select

Committee on Assassinations (J. F. K. Document 009047) .

(55) FBI Teletype, FOIA material, 62-109060-2668, Nov. 26, 1963, p. 2.

(.56) Material received from files of New Orleans district attorney's office pertaining

to investigation and trial of Clay Shaw, 1967-69, attachment D, section 5,

regarding Guy Banister, "Biographical Sketch" (J . F. K. Document 007271) .

( .57) Ibid .

(58) Ibid .

1(59) Ibid .

(60) Ibid. : FAA materials. Systems Board of Adjustments Grievance Hearing

of David Ferrie, testimony of Guy Banister, Aug. 5, 1963, p. 828 (J . F. K. Document

No. 014904) .

(61) See ref. 56.

(62) Staff review of FBI files for Guy Banister, Oct. 28, 1978, pp. 1-2.

x(68) CIA document.

(64) Staff review of FBI files for Guy Banister, Oct. 28, 1978, pp. 1-2. (Note :

Coincidentally, Gerard F. Tujague, owner of Gerard F. Tujague, Inc. Forwarding

Co., who had employed Oswald as a messenger from November 1955 to January

1956, was also a member and officer (vice-president) of Friends of Democratic

Cuba (see FBI teletype, 62-10906.01668, Jan. 26, 1963, p. 5) .)

(65) Ibid .

I(66) See ref. 60, p. 828.

(67) Staff review of FBI files for Guy Banister, Oct. 28, 1978, pp. 1-2.

(68) Deposition of Sam Newman, Nov. 6, 1978, House Select Committee on

Assassinations, p. 22 (J . F. K. Document No. 014020) .

(69) Staff report, "Anti-Castro Activist and Organizations and Lee Harvey

Oswald in New Orleans," Appendix to the Hearings before the Select Committee

on Assassinations, House of Representatives, 95th Congress, 2d session (Washington,

D.C . : U.S . Government Printing Office, 1979), vol. X, par. 419fe (hereinafter

the Anti-Castro Cuban staff report) .

(70) Ibid., pars. 402 and 418.

(71) FBI teletype, FOIA material, 62-109060-5237, May 7, 1967, pp. 1-2.

(72) Outside Contact Report, Vernon Gerdes, Jan. 10, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations, p. 3 (J. F. K. Document No. 005208) ; see ref. 68, p. 49 ;

Outside Contact Report, Jack Martin, Dec. 5, 1978, House Select Committee on

Assassinations, p. 6 (J . F. K. Document No. 005212) .

(73) FBI teletype, FOIA material, 62-109060-5237, May 7, 1967, pp. 1-2.

(74) See ref. 60, p. 825.

(75) Ibid ., p. 48L

(76) Ibid .

(77) Ibid .

(78) Ibid ., pp. 825-855.

1(79) Outside Contact Report, Mary Helen Brengel, Apr. 6, 197$ House Select

Committee on Assassinations (J. F. K. Document No. 008861) ; and ref. 69, Anti-

Castro Cuban Staff Report, par. 439ff.

(80) Ibid ., par. 390.

(81) Ibid ., par. 390ff.

(82) Ibid ., par. 392.

(8j) Outside Contact Report, Ross Banister, Feb. 20, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations, p. 3 (J. F. K. Document No. 005967) .

(84) Ibid .

(85) Ibid .

(86) Deposition of I . E. "Bill" Nitschke, July 31, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations, pp. 5 and 12 (J. F. K. Document No. 012308) .

(87) Id . a t pp. 12-14 .

(88) Id . a t pp. 3(i-37.

(89) Ibid.

(9(I) Id . a t pp.38-41.

(91) Ibid .

(92) Outside Contact Report, Delphine Roberts, July 6, 1978, House Select

Committee on Assassinations, p . 3 (J . F. K. Document No. 009979) .

(93) See ref . 22, p. 27.

(94) Id . a t pp. 35-36.

x(95) Ibid.

(96) Id . a t p. 30 .

(97) Outside contact report, Joseph Newbrough, Apr. 10, 1964, House Select

Committee on Assassinations, p . 1 (J . F. K. Document No. 009113) . Newbrough

was associated with Banister's agency from approximately 1958 to 1964 ; Outside

Contact Report, Vernon Gerdes, Jan. 10, 1978, House Select Committee on Assassinations

(J. F. K. Document No. 005208) . Gerdes was associated with Banister

for the period 1960-63.

(98) Outside contact report, Mary Helen Brengel, Apr. 6, 1978, House Select

Committee on Assassinations, p. 1 (J. F. K. Document No. 008861) .

(99) Notes of an interview of Louise Decker, May 30, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations (J. F. K. Document 015045) .

(100) Outside contact report, Joseph Oster, Jan. 27, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations (J. F. K. Document 005207) .

(101) Deposition of Carlos Quiroga, May 23, 1978, House Select Committee on

Assassinations, pp. 21-27 (J . F. K. Document 009394) .

(102) Id. at pp . 50, 51, and 57.

(103) Ibid.

(104) See ref. 22, p. 31 . Newman recommended the committee speak with Martin

because he was in Banister's office "90 percent of the time ; every day almost"

and he "kept up with all that stuff" related to the Cubans. See also ref. 86. pp.

59-60. Nitschke told the committee, "' " " If you were trying to explore this to

the fullest extent, I would say that Delphine (Roberts) would be No. 1 " ' * ."

(105) Outside contact report, Delpbine Roberts, July 6, 1978, House Select

Committee on Assassinations, p. 1 (J. F. K. Document 009979) .

(106) Id . a t p. 3 .

(107) Ibid .

(108) Ibid .

(109) Ibid .

(110) Ibid.

(111) Ibid.

(112) Ibid .

(113) Ibid .

(114) See ref. 105, p . 3.

(115) Ibid.

(116) Guy Banister file, Garrison papers, Aug. 14, 1977, item GB-2, "Report of

Offense Against Persons," Nov. 22, 1963, New Orleans Police Department (J . F. K.

Document 002066) . The report indicates the incident took place at 5 :15 p.m. and

was classified as "aggravated battery" ; the motive was "sudden anger."

(117) Ibid .

(118) Ibid.

(119) Ibid .

(120) Ibid .

(121) Ibid .

(122) Ibid.

(123) Ibid .

(124) Outside contact report, Jack Martin, Dec. 5, 1977, House Select Committee

on Assassinations, p . I (J . F. K. Document 005212) .

136

(125) See ref. 86, pp. 9-16.

(126) See ref. 124, p. 3.

(127) Id . a t p. 4.

(128) Ibid.

(129) Ibid .

(130) FBI interviews of Jack Martin, Nov. 25, 1963 and Nov. 27, 1963, Bureau

file No. 89-69.

(131) FBI interview of G. Wray Gill, Nov. 27, 1963, Bureau file No. 89-69, p. 2.

(132) FBI interview of David Ferrie, Nov. 26, 1963, Bureau file No. 89-69, p . 9.

(1,33) See ref. 124, p . 1 ; FBI interview of G. Wray Gill, Nov. 27, 1963, Bureau

file loo. S9-69, p. 2 ; and FBI interview of David Ferrie, Nov. 26, 1963, Bureau file

No. 59-69, p . 9 . See also FAA Sys`ems Board of Adjustment Grievance hearings

for David Ferrie, July 15-17 and Aug. 5, 1963, for more discussion of Ferrie's and

Ma-.-I in's involvement in unusual religious orders.

(13 ) FBI interview of David Ferrie, Nov. 26, 1963, Bureau file No. 89-69, p . 9.

(1 .35) FBI interview of G. Wray Gill, Nov. 27, 1963, Bureau file No. 89-69, p. 2.

(13G) Ibid .

(137) See ref . 124, p. 2 .

(138) Ibid . ; see also FBI interviews of Jack Martin, Nov. 25, 1963 and Nov. 27,

1963 ; Secret Service interview of Jack Martin, Nov. 29, 1963, reported in report

of Dec. 13, 1963, p . 5. Martin makes no mention of the alleged sighting of Oswald

and Ferrie together .

(139) Outside contact report, Mary Banister Wilson, Apr. 7, 1978, House Select

Committee on Assassinations (J . F. K. Document 012448) .

(11,.0) Ibid .

(111) Ibid.

(112) Outside contact report, Kent Courtney, Mar. 19, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations (J . F. K. Document 006676) .

(113) See ref . 139 .

(141) Outside contact report, Russell R. Willie, June 8, 1978, House Select

Committee on Assassinations (J. F. K. Document 009262) ; outside contact report,

Joseph Cambre, June 8, 1978, House Select Committee on Assassinations (J. F. K.

Document 009263) .

(115) Ibid ., outside contact report, Willie .

(116) Ibid.

(117) Ibid .

(118) Outside contact report, Joseph Cambre, June 8, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations (J . F. K. Document No. 009263) .

(119) Ibid.

(150) Ibid.

(151) Ibid .

(1 .52) Outside contact report, Aaron Kohn, Jan. 20, 1978, House Select Committee

on Assassinations (J . F. K. Document No. 005121) .

(153) Ibid.

(151) Guy Banister file, Garrison papers, Aug. 14, 1977, item GB-1, index of

Banster file (J. F. K. Document No. 002066) .

(155) See ref . 148 .

(156) Guy Banister file, Garrison papers, Aug. 14, 1977, item GB-1, index of

Banister file (J . F. K. Document No. 002066) .

(157) FBI interview of David Ferrie, Nov. 26, 1963 and Nov. 27, 1063, Bureau

file \o. 89-69, p. 10.

(498) During another interview, Roberts told the committee that
Oswald came into the office seeking employment and sometime later
brought
Marina in with him. Contrary to her statements in the initial
interview,
that she had never seen Oswald, she stated that she saw Oswald come
into
Banister's office on several occasions. Because of such
contradictions in
Roberts' statements to the committee and lack of independent
corroboration
of many of her statements, the reliability of her statements could not
be
determined.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Why do you find her testimony credible? It is not only contradicted
by
other employees who worked for Banister, but it flatly contradicts
Marina's testimony about what she was doing in New Orleans during the
summer of 1963.

--------------------------------------------------------

Posner's efforts to keep Oswald away from 544 Camp Street have a touch
of the ludicrous about them. He tries to discredit the reliability of
every witness that places Oswald there: Delphine Roberts and her
daughter, David Lewis, Jack Martin, Oswald himself and the HSCA. He
portrays Roberts as off her rocker and says she now states she lied to
Tony Summers in the late 70's about Oswald being in Banister's office.
She says today that Summers gave her some money to appear on camera
for a TV special and this is why she said what she did. Posner ignores
the following: 1.) Roberts told her story to Summers before he even
mentioned anything about a payment 2.) On her own and without any
promise of money, Roberts told essentially the same story to Earl Golz
of the Dallas Morning News in a story that ran in December of 1978 3.)
Her story about seeing a "communist" outside the office leafletting
the area, telling Banister, and him laughing and saying that he was
one of them is partly corroborated by an interview with a third party
in Banister's office at the time. Again this is in the Garrison files
that Posner says he had access to.


Posner shifts into a denial mode and sustains it by any means
necessary. For instance, Posner begins Chapter 7 by stating that,
according to Marina, Oswald was home early every evening for the
couple's entire stay in New Orleans. Posner has often stated that he
had access to the late Jim Garrison's files. If he did he would have
found out that Oswald stayed overnight on more than one occasion in a
room adjacent to the French Quarter restaurant "The Court of the Two
Sisters". The room was arranged by a mutual friend of Shaw and Ferrie.
Posner mentions that Oswald worked at Reily Coffee Company while in
New Orleans but leaves out the facts of the Reily family's connections
to Cuban exile groups and the peculiar coincidence of Oswald's
colleagues being transferred from Reily to the NASA complex at nearby
Michaud Air Force Base.


In Case Closed, author Gerald Posner spends three pages attempting to
discredit Delphine Roberts, first by quoting her views on race and
religion (Posner, 140), then dismissing her story -- given under oath
to
the House Select Committee of Assassinations and to journalist Anthony
Summers, among others -- as simply "unreliable"

Posner brushes aside the supporting testimony of Delphine Roberts,
Jr.,
as "equally untenable"* (Posner, 141), but he fails to mention that
virtually every statement of the two Roberts women is corroborated by
either Allen Campbell, Daniel Campbell, David Campbell, Jack Martin,
William George Gaudet, or Dr. Michael L. Kurtz.

*Posner mocks Delphine Roberts, Jr., for saying she met Marguerite
Oswald
at 531 Lafayette Street, and that "she was lovely." Posner points out,
correctly, that Marguerite Oswald -- as far as we know -- did not step
foot in New Orleans during 1963 [Posner, 141]. While this one
statement
alone hardly annihilates the younger Delphine's credibility, his
author
humbly suggests, based on the hundreds of documented factual and
typographical errors in Posner's book, that it may be Mr. Posner who
has
the story wrong, as the elder Delphine Roberts says she did meet
MARINA
Oswald on one occasion. For hundreds of examples of Posner's errors,
see
the Electronic Assassinations Newsletter at:

According to Delphine Roberts, Lee Oswald walked into her office
sometime in 1963 and asked to fill in the forms for accreditation as
one of Banister's "agents." Mrs Roberts says:

"Oswald introduced himself by name and said he was seeking an
application form. I did not think that was really why he was there.
During the course of the conversation, I gained the impression that he
and Guy Banister already knew each other. After Oswald filled out the
application form, Guy Banister called him into the office. The door
was closed, and a lengthy conversation took place. Then the young man
left. I presumed then, and now am certain, that the reason for Oswald
being there was that he was required to act under cover."

The precise purpose of Oswald's "undercover" role remained obscure to
Mrs Roberts, but she soon learned that it involved Cuba and some sort
of charade that required deception. She says:

"Oswald came back a number of times. He seemed to be on familiar terms
with Banister and with the office. As I understood it, he had the use
of an office on the second floor, above the main office where we
worked. I was not greatly surprised when I learned he was going up and
down, back and forth. Then, several times, Mr Banister brought me
upstairs, and in the main office above, I saw various writings stuck
up on the wall pertaining to Cuba. There were various leaflets up
there pertaining to Fair Play for Cuba. They were pro-Castro leaflets.
Banister just didn't say anything about them one way or the other. But
on several occasions, when some people who had been upstairs would
bring some of that material down into the main office, Banister was
very incensed about it. He did not want that material in his office."

One day, says Mrs Roberts, ... as she retured to the office in the
afternoon, she saw "that young man passing out his pro-Castro leaflets
in the street." .... She mentioned what she had seen to Banister. His
reaction was casual, "Don't worry about him. He's a nervous fellow,
he's confused. He's with us, he's associated with the office." Nothing
Banister said indicated the slightest surprise or anger that somebody
from his anti-Castro stable was out in the street openly demonstrating
in favor of Fidel Castro. ....

[Roberts said:] "Mr Banister had been a special agent for the FBI and
was still working for them. There were quite a number of connections
which he kept with the FBI and CIA too. I know he and the FBI traded
information due to his former association. ....I think he received
funds from the CIA -- I know he had access to large funds at various
times in 1963." [pp 324-326]






dfcram98@aol.com (Dave Ciardello) wrote in message news:<6381098d.0308181214.48ef9d7f@posting.google.com>...
> wdankbaar@hotmail.com (Wim Dankbaar) wrote in message news:<266a6278.0308170256.6f275b7e@posting.google.com>...
> > mmm, silence.......
> >
> > question too tough !?
>
> Hi Wimm,
>
>
> Do you know if these four witnesses are credible? Can you give more info
> regarding these people and exactly what they observed? I guess if they don't
> support the findings of the Warren Commission then we should automatically
> consider ALL four of these people crazy, attention seekers, jerks, liars,
> mentally insane, trash, and every possible smear tag out there that is so
> readily used by many defenders of the Warren Commission!
>
> It is interesting that nobody has responded. I don't think i've ever seen
> Dr. McAdams so obsessed with a topic like he has been with Judyth Vary Baker.
> There must really be something in her story that has lit a fire under his
> rear end. It has me puzzled. He acts like he is concerned about her story.
> Actually, much more than concerned. Take care Wimm.

Oswald-Banister:
1. The testimony of Jack Martin, who said he saw Oswald with David
Ferrie in Banister's office in 1963 (HSCA X p. 130). He was a not
particularly reliable drunk who worked as an investigator for Banister.
Sam Newman told HSCA that Martin was in Banister's office "90 percent of
the time; every day almost" and he "kept up with all that stuff."(HSCA X
p. 135, note 104)
2. The testimony of Delphine Roberts, Banister's secretary and
mistress, that Banister kept a file on Oswald that "was kept out of the
original files" (the Louisiana State Police confirmed Banister had a
file on the FPCC and Oswald: HSCA X p. 131), that Banister was angry
Oswald stamped 544 Camp St. on his leaflets, and that Oswald came into
the office "on several occasions."(HSCA X p. 129) She also said Banister
told her, when she reported Oswald's leafletting to him, that "He's with
us. He's associated with the office." (Anthony Summers, Conspiracy, 1991
ed., p. 295) Posner notes that she is extreme right-wing, a religious
nut and was paid for her interview with Anthony Summers (pp. 140-41),
none of which proves she was lying. Banister friend and associate Ivan
Nitschke told HSCA:"If you were trying to explore this to the fullest
extent, I would say that Delphine would be No. 1."(HSCA X p. 135, note
104). Roberts told Summers Oswald worked for Banister. (Conspiracy, op.
cit., pp. 294-5).
3. James Arthus' statement to the Secret Service that a man whose
name he didn't recall had tried to rent an office at 544 Camp Street.
(HSCA X p. 125); he gave them the name of the woman who had dealt with
the man, but she was never questioned. (Just as Banister was never asked
about Oswald.)
4. Banister employees Allen and Daniel Campbell. Daniel reported
that Oswald came into Banister's office and used the desk phone. Allen
reports that instead of reacting with his usual anger at pro-Castro
activities, Banister merely laughed when Oswald's leafletting was
mentioned. (Conspiracy, op. cit., p. 293).
5. Another young Banister employee, George Higginbothan, said he
kidded Banister "about sharing a building with people papering the
streets with leftist literature." Banister responded:"Cool it--one of
them is mine." (Hinckle and Turner, Deadly Secrets, pp. 234-5)
6. Adrian Alba, whose office Oswald regularly visited, reported
seeing Oswald in Mancuso's restaurant, on the ground floor of 544 Camp
St. (Conspiracy, op. cit., p. 296). The restaurant was frequented by
Banister. The restaurant's owner described Banister, David Ferrie and
Jack Martin as regular customers.(HSCA X p. 125).
7. CIA operative William George Gaudet reported seeing Oswald with
Banister. (Conspiracy op. cit., p. 444).
9. Southern Louisiana University historian Michael Kurtz knew that
Oswald and Banister twice visited the Louisiana State University campus
together and engaged in heated discussions with students; he was, at the
time, one of the students. He also saw the two together at Mancuso's
(Kurtz, Crime of the Century, 1993 edition, p. 203, xxxix). Witnesses he
interviewed for an earlier article reported seeing Oswald and Banister
together at Mancuso's "with David Ferrie and Carlos Quiroga"; Oswald was
seen entering Banister's office "several times"; one of Oswald's
co-workers at the Reily Coffee Co. saw Oswald and Banister walking
together on Camp St.; another witness reported the two attended a White
Citizens' Council meeting (reminiscent of the meetings Oswald is known
to have attended in Dallas). (Kurtz, "Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans:
A Reappraisal," Louisiana History vol. 21, Winter 1980).
10. Further confirmation comes from Through the Looking Glass: The
Mysterious World of Clay Shaw by William Davy: New Orleans attorney
Tommy Baumler, formerly an infiltrator of left-wing college groups for
Banister, told interviewers in 1981 that "Oswald worked for Banister."

Martin

John McAdams wrote:
> On 10 Jul 2003 13:14:31 -0400, stugrad98@aol.com (Stugrad98) wrote:
>
>
>>>What about Delphine Roberts?
>>
>>John, am I correct that the sum total of your "Delphine Roberts is not
>>reliable" comments come from Gerald Posner. Do you have anything beyond a
>>secondary source for your claims? I know you would find that unacceptable
>>coming from CTs.
>>
>
>
> I've seen the Garrison peoples' interviews with her, and she mentioned
> nothing about this to them.
>
> Then there was the HSCA, who interviewed several people know to have
> been around Banister's office in the summer of 1963, and none of them
> had seen Oswald.
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/544camp.txt
>
> I take it you believe her, right?
>
> .John
>
> --
> The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

 

A LITTLE GIRL'S MEMORIES

LEE HARVEY'S OLDEST
JUNE OSWALD



As America's obsession with her father

goes on, a daughter tries to set the record straight.



By Steve Salerno



>From The New York Times Magazine

April 30, 1995.



MORE THAN 30 YEARS AFTER the Kennedy assassination, Lee Harvey Oswald is a
name that will not go away. One of the latest authors to wade into the
conspiracy waters is Norman Mailer, whose book "Oswald's Tale: An
Ameri­can Mystery" will be published next month. The assassination has
also been a constant in the life of June Oswald Porter, the 33-year-old
daughter of Lee Harvey Oswald. In her early years, grocery shopping with
her mother, Marina, and sister, Rachel, took place amid stares and
finger-pointing; hushed conversations ignited around them like flash fires
as they walked the supermarket aisles. Because Marina Oswald realized that
she and her children could become the focus of attention at any time, she
made sure June and Rachel were always neatly dressed - no matter how small
the chore, and despite the fact that the family was often financially
strapped. "She never knew when we'd run into someone, and she didn't want
us to look like poor white trash"' June says simply.



Upon entering public school, June took the surname of her stepfather,
Kenneth Porter, who married Marina in 1965. But anonymity exacted a
curious price of its own, as June faced myriad graceless references to her
father, mother and family. Even an intended compliment could hold hidden
barbs - as when a male co-worker remarked on June's resemblance to "a
young Marina Oswald," then immediately apologized, saying he "didn't mean
to insult her" by invoking the infamous name.

Nonetheless, during several interviews over the past she reports being
content. And she recalls her childhood as a "pretty happy" time, thanks in
large part to her stepfather. June is quieter about her own marriage,
which ended in 1992. She remains protective of her privacy, distancing
herself and her sons, ages 6 and 3, from the overall clique of
assassination cultists who have dogged the Oswald women -Manna, now 53,
June, and Rachel, 31 - ever since the events of Nov.22, 1963. (June has
requested that her married name, which she still uses in business, not be
printed)



Despite privacy concerns, she's pushing for the release of all records
pertaining to the assassination. "We have to get the Government to move
before it's too late."



Q: What are your thoughts on Norman Mailer's new book?



A: I don't have a comment on it as far as its conclusions because I
haven't read them, but I did start the book. Mailer is such a great
writer; I was just so enthralled. The first chapter opens with my family,
and he goes way back to my great-grandmother in Russia. This is material
I never would have known about insofar as my mother's side of the family,
because my mother was illegitimate, you know. It's a little bit like
opening a family album you didn't know existed before.

I can tell you that I am very excited about the book in concept. I believe
he's the first writer-researcher to get interviews with sources in the
Russian Government and so this is an opportunity to shed new light on the
subject from an area that has never been explored in any meaningful depth.



Q: To what extent have you followed the various conspiracy theories?



A: It's only in recent years that I've started to get into all that,
mostly as part trying to get the records released. There was a bill passed
at the end of the Bush Administration that required all Government
agencies to review their files for any information related to the
assassination and to release it - unless they felt there were matters of
national security or a couple of other issues. The law said that if they
felt that way, then those documents needed to be turned over to the
Assassination Records Review Board and those folks would review the
records and either concur, release them in blacked out state or release
them entirely.



Q: Over the years, you've kept a pretty low profile. Why have you started
to speak out?



A: Well, there was a lot of misinfor­mation being released related to a
book, "Case Closed," by Gerald Posner. And they got my mother on
television in a live interview - she still doesn't have a good grasp of
the language - and they were ask­ing her specific questions about this
book. She hadn't read it. I felt they manipulated her and made her look
foolish. I had already written a we got to President Clinton to try to
make sure he would appoint this review board from the Bush legisla­tion to
review assassination records, and to release those records. I was really
supportive. Since I hadn't gotten a response, I toyed with the idea that I
might have to go public. When my mother came on and this interview went
so badly, I decided I really wanted to rebut.



Q: I guess you must be encouraged that the review board was finally sworn
in last year.



A: Yes, I'm also very excited about that. They first met last April in
Washington. And there have been public hearings there and in Dallas and
Boston.



Q: What is the status of your present-day identity? It sounds as if most
people are not aware you're Lee Oswald's daughter.



A: Yes and no. Now, Mom does articles that she doesn't bother to tell me
she's doing, and sometimes my name comes up. We always used my
stepfather's name, Porter, grow­ing up, even though we were never legally
adopted. My secretary in my last job put two and two together based on one
of those articles. She copied it and put it on all my staff's desks.

I didn't really want to be the center of gossip in this whole building. So
I called my staff in, a group of 10 or so, and I said: "Yes, that is me in
the article. Obviously, if I'd wanted to share that I would have told
everyone a long time ago. I don't think it's relevant to anything we do
here and I appreciate you keeping it to yourself."

My biggest concern was that people at the office had my home address and
phone number and I didn't want it leaked to The National Enquirer I have
two small children, I'm divorced, I didn't want people to harass the kids.



Q: Give me an example of what you'd consider harassment


A: When I was pregnant with my first, some lady got my phone num­ber and
called in the middle of the night. And she said, "June Oswald?" That
catches you off guard when you just wake up. And I said, "Yes?" And she
said: "I'm so and so, and I just want you to know that I've written a song
about you - and your child. And I'm gonna be in Dallas, and I want to sing
it to you."

I said I appreciate it, but I really don't get involved in that. You try
to be nice because you don't want to make somebody upset who's going to
seek you out if they're kooky enough to do that stuff anyway.

There's always been this little group that's followed us - Mom, Rachel and
me-and calls us and is fascinated by anything surrounding us. My first
serious boyfriend -that's what he was fascinated about. He tracked me
down. He said things when we were together like he really wanted to have
children because "that would be the blood of Lee Harvey Oswald that was
flowing through the kids."

So he moved to Boston and wanted me to join him. I move all the way up
there, and his parents wouldn't even let us stay in his house because I
was the daughter of Lee Harvey Oswald. They said it would depreciate the
value of their home.

Then I find out he's been doing some quote-unquote assassination
re­search. So I ended up supporting him. Anyway, the only person I knew up
there was Priscilla Johnson McMillan, who wrote my mother's book. We
stayed with her for the summer.

My boyfriend would sneak down to Priscilla's basement and read all her old
files. He sold an article for an astronomical amount back then - I think
it was $25,000. The way I finally woke up was, one night he said, "I'm
gonna sell an article to Penthouse or Playboy"- I forget which - "and it's
about your mother. I'm convinced that your mother and Priscilla had a
sexual relationship." So I said, O.K, this is it. Just get out.



Q: Tell me about growing up in the aftermath of the assassination. I know
you were just a toddler, but do you have any recollections of turbu­lence
in the household?



A: I don't have any real memories of those ages. I know some people can
remember vividly like it was yesterday, but I don't do that - even about
yesterday.

I do remember that our phones were tapped. We always had this really bad
connection, and when you'd pick up the phone you'd hear that other click.
This was before wiretapping got more sophisticated. For all I know it's
still tapped.

Mom was always overprotective of us. We didn't use the Oswald name, and it
didn't come, up a lot around the house except when reporters would call It
was always a big deal in November, when it was very stressful in the
house. Mom would smoke all the time. Reporters came over and she would
tell us, "shhhh, go in the other room"



Q: When were you actually told about your father and the assassination?


A: Something had come up where Mom had old boxes of letters out. People
sent us money following the assassination, because Mom was young with two
small children and didn't speak the language.

Somehow those boxes came down and she was reading, and I guess she felt it
was time to tell us. She sat us down, with my stepbrother, and started to
explain who our father was- that it wasn't Kenneth - and who Lee was and
what he had done. I just remember crying a lot because Mom was crying.



Q: How old were you then?


A: It would have been, like, first grade. And then, they tell a story
about how after that I stood up in front of the whole class and said, "My
father shot the President." Just out of the blue. But I don't remember
that.

The next memory I actually have is in second grade. We were studying the
Presidents. The Presidents were all around the walls in the rooms. And we
got to President Kennedy and I was told to go across the hall during that
one. So I sat across the hall in a time-out room.



Q: How did you feel about being singled out?


A: I remember what I did during that time-out was, I plotted how I could
run for class president and win! So l never connected it as a big negative
or anything.

Rachel felt differently. She his always felt really bogged down by it. She
did­n't feel like Kenneth was her dad. She wanted to know Lee; she wants
lee to be a saint. Well, I was satisfied with my dad, so I've never felt
this big need to connect with Lee or do the daughter-father thing.



Q: One can't help but notice that you address him as "Lee."



A: I've always called him that. My father is Kenneth Porter, the man I
grew up with, the man who was there for my mother and Rachel and me.



Q: And if someone were to show scientifically that Lee Oswald was or
wasn't involved, that wouldn't make a difference to you?



A: I would make a difference in the sense of justice being served. If the
truth can be found that shows Lee had nothing to do with the
assassina­tion, I would feel better in that there have been a lot of
things said and done regarding my family that all proceeded from an
erroneous per­ception of what he did or didn't do.

But you have to understand that, aside from what role he had in the
assassination, there's the issue of what role he had in our family. I know
that in my life, Lee wasn't a good man. He wasn't much of a husband, he
wasn't much of a father. He beat my mother. There were times when we
didn't have milk to drink. We lived in poor housing or were taken in by
others. So if I'm able to be detached or seem cold and unemotional about
it, it's because I look at Lee in those terms.



Q: I assume you've seen the footage of Lee being shot by Jack Ruby. Are
you able to maintain the same detach­ment when you see that?



A: The first time l saw it l was very upset, but it gets to the point
where it almost becomes unreal, this movie you're watching that has very
little to do with you as a person.

Mostly I feel bad that Lee was never able to tell his story. He tried to
after the arrest but everybody discounted it. I would have liked for him
to have his day in court.



Q: Where do you stand today as far as your perception of what really
happened out there in Dealey Plaza?



A: I've never publicly said one way or the other for sure. There are a
lot of assassination buffs who have analyzed all the technical data and
the other available material and even they don't agree about what
happened.



Q: But are you comfortable with the fact that Lee Oswald played at least
some role?



A: I think there definitely is circumstantial evidence that could imply he
had something to do with it because of the characters he was hanging out
with in New Orleans. But you know, just because you're hanging out with a
weird group - they could have set him up, and he could have had no idea
what was going on that day.



Q: Did you ever take the so-called assassination tour?


A: Not until recently. I went on a car trip up to the house I had lived in
with Lee, Lee's boarding house, another house Mom had lived in with Lee
that's still standing, the path of the motorcade, where the bullets hit.



Q: How did you feel about that?


A: It was - unusual. I didn't break down and cry or anything. It was just
kind of eerie.



Q: I'm sure there must have been a lot of unusual incidents as you were
growing up.



A: I remember Rachel's seventh ­grade dance. So this little boy she was
going with, his parents were going to come get her and they were going to
go to the dance.

Well, we're all waiting and a car pulls up in the driveway, and Mom rushes
out to greet these parents, and they happen to be a man and a woman, and
they've got a camera and she says, "Oh, you're gonna take pictures!
Great!" And she's just welcoming them with open arms. And they say: "Oh,
we can take pictures? Oh great!" Another car pulls up - and that's the
parents and the little boy. The first car was The National Enquirer. But
it was so funny because Mom talked to them for - I mean, nobody noticed
that the date wasn't there!

During college, Rachel supported herself at the Texas Chili Parlor in
Austin. It's right across from the Capitol, and she was a waitress. Well,
there's a travel guide she found out about that actually listed the Texas
Chilli Parlor and said the daughter of Lee Harvey Oswald worked there. So
she became a sort oftourist attraction.



Q: Your childhood doesn't sound like it was easy.



A: Mom kept us together. She was pretty strong. I don't know if I could've
done it and kept my sanity: two small children, don't speak the language,
dirt poor, everybody in the country pointing their finger at you -hating
you in some cases. I'm a strong woman, but I don't know if I could've kept
myself together. But she did. She kept herself together for us.



Q: Was any of this an issue in your marriage?


A: No. My husband couldn't have cared less. But I still have problems in
that area, because I date a lot. I always feel torn by whether I'm
required to tell somebody about my history. I usually end up telling
people that I'm seeing very often. And I'll tell you why: It could come up
at any minute.



Q: Did you see the "Seinfeld" epi­sode in which they're at the ballpark,
and they get spat upon, and-



A: The "second spirter," right. It was hilarious.



Q: If someone was to ask you today who your father is, what would you say?
Whom do you really think of as dad?



A: Kenneth. Now, the word father does mean Lee to me, But dad is Dad. And
you know, it's not Lee's fault he got killed by Jack Ruby. I don't blame
him for not being here for me. I do blame him for having beat my mother,
and not being a good father or a good provider. Because some people have
called me and said, "I knew your father and he really loved you." I have
to admit that when I heard that he used to play with me all the time, that
was a nice feeling. I try to hold that in the back of my head.



Q: Do you worry about telling your children as they grow up?


A: I do. I started worrying about, first of all, do I have a
responsibility to tell them? What do I tell them? And I realize that I'm
kind of cold about it, so how do I tell them? Do I need to be more
compassionate' about it? I want to make sure they understand why I'm so
matter-of-fact about it. But see, I'm matter-of-fact about a lot in my
life.

The other thing is, you just worry genealogically: Lee was illegitimate,
and so was my mother. I've wondered what my kids are going to turn out
like. Are they going to take after some ancestor we don't even know?
There's a lot of genetic things you can't even control that are inborn in
your kids.



Q: How are things between you and your mom these days?


A: The last two years have been very stressful, because she started doing
things that she hasn't let us know about, then all of a sudden I hear
about it or see it on TV. Like she did a movie and it involved me and
Rachel, and she didn't tell us first. l think her physical health and
mental health have been damaged in recent years over all of the pressures
put on her.



Q: After all this time?


A: Part of it was the big anniversary, the 30th. There were a lot of
things leading up to that that they wanted Mom to do, and Mom in recent
years has gotten more and more involved, I guess because she's getting
older and trying to rectify some of the things she may have done
unintentionally-like stating publicly that Lee did it. I've never seen her
act like that, like she needed to become more of a crusader, and it's
taking its toll.



Q: On your relationship with her as well?


A: It has put certain strain on it. Mom accused me one day of being
ashamed of who I was. I don't think that's true. It's not a matter of
being ashamed, it's a matter of wanting to be judged as June Oswald and
not "the daughter of Lee Harvey Oswald."



Q: Do you and Rachel argue much about this?


A: Yes. Just in recent years; but yes. We are very close - except when
these kinds of things come up.

See, this is the difference. We vis­ited the set of "JFK" when it was
going on, and somebody said, "Your father was a hero." Well, that's what
Rachel wants to believe. Rachel loved listening to that. She got all
caught up, because she wants so badly to have this identification with her
father.

That didn't set well with me. If they could prove somehow that he was
innocent, he'd still not be a hero, he'd be a martyr. I have to remind
Rachel that this is the man who beat our mother, who didn't provide for
his children. I tell her, "Rachel, for all we know, we could have been
living in the streets." Because that's mostly what I think of when I think
of Lee. As for what his exact role in the assassination was - well, he'll
have to be judged for that before God.





"LRESA500" <lresa500@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030905223715.21934.00000608@mb-m04.aol.com...
> Whatever became of LHO's two children? I believe one of them was named
> June.
>

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